Stopped over at Apogee South Beach the other day to see how the building was coming along. I overheard a buyer compaining to their agent that they didn’t like their unit, and wished they had picked a corner unit. Uh…DUH! Of course the corner unit is better than the flow-through unit.
Flow through units have been “all the rage” in Miami Beach condo floor plans in the last four or five years. I would describe these units as typically having exposure on the ‘prime’ side of the building and exposure on the street-side as well. When a building goes up for sale in the pre-construction phase, these are usually the best selling units in the building for a couple of reasons:
1. they are less expensive $ psf than compared to units which enjoy more exposure on the “prime” side of the building
2. the developer “highlights” the fact that you have “both views”, thus making you feel like these units are steals compared to the corner units.
APOGEE SOUTH BEACH FLOOR PLATE
The problem with flow-through units is that they look great on paper, but in reality they are not. Though they do have two exposures, the units tend to be narrow and dark. Whenever one of my clients thinks something looks really great…on paper..I try to take them to a similar unit in an existing building. This way they get a chance to see what I already know: some things look a whole lot better on paper than they do when they are completed.
Categories: Apogee, Client Advices, Pre-construction, South Beach/SoFi
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May 27th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Ok - but there are advantages to flow-through units, like protection, wall space, lower utility bills. Smart architects usually give these flow through units a little extra to make them more “marketable” also for the obvious reasons.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Ines,
Yes, they do get more and that is why people tend to lean toward them because they ’show value’ very well. Typically these units are very, very expensive. Apogee flow-throughs start at about $4M and these types of buyers don’t consider those things (utilities, etc). When a person comes to Miami they have a vision of what a Miami condo is: light, bright and beautiful views.
To better highlight this, check out the listings at The Bath Club. The corner units are ALL sold and the flow-throughs are languishing on the market.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Kevin - when I said lower utility bills I did not mean “cheaper” I meant “greener” - and I’m sure you are encountering a lot more environmentally concerned people buying nowadays……which was unheard of years ago. btw, I’ve been curious about the whole bathclub project since it started - that whole area seems so congested to me…but the “bath club” is “the bath club”
May 27th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Ines,
Oh, don’t get me started on that neighborhood. It is complicated by the project (Terra) in that center piece of land. The City of Miami Beach is all ‘we want low-rise development’ and look what they got on that parcel: NO GREEN! It would have been better to have one slender 30 story tower and have some nice green space (good for oxygen production) then that project which takes up every bit of land. A tragedy if you ask me!
May 27th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
I think you and I could go forever with these discussions - The City of Miami Beach really contraditcts itself when it comes to scale and density…it really is a shame. I personally LOVE the density of Surfside….but I think we are getting off topic here.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
It’s ok—I like the freedom of going where the discussion takes us.
The City of Miami Beach believes that we are small town’y’ like Key West. That has been the problem. They are not realizing what the city is:
a very urban city. That is why we have so many contradictions. One day: we are NYC, next day we are Key West……
May 27th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
One building I was appalled at when they approved it was the Bermello building on 5th and Washington - what where they thinking?
May 27th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
There is no rhyme or reason. I used to watch the city meetings on cable—it was soo comical AND frustrating.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
They have good intentions, but it’s so political at the same time, but that happens everywhere. The bottom line is that Miami Beach is an awesome place. Thanks for talking to me Kevin, I’m off to catch up on Desperate Housewives (tivo).
May 27th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Believe it or not, we have “flow-thru” units in Seattle too
Now that I see the floor plan, I recognize them well.
We had a client who had picked a flow thru on paper, but switched to the larger unit which cost almost twice as much. I was concerned for her going up that high in price.
But she is the HAPPIEST client we’ve ever had. Practically dancing in the streets at closing. She LOVES her place and is working harder to afford it, because she feels it is worth it.
She’s had us over for dinner a couple of times and I no longer worry about her. She knew the flow-thru wasn’t for her.
I think the point is that when they see it on paper they really just don’t envision it the same way they do when they see it in person. Anyone who actually likes it IN PERSON…great! But I agree with Kevin that you should make sure they know what they are buying.
I like taking them to a flow thru unit in any building that is the equivalent square footage. Let them see a reasonable facsimile of what they are getting so they can trade up before it is too late, if that is what they decide to do.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:12 am
Yes, exactly! Knowing that some people need to be helped to envision what that type of unit looks/feels like is very important. People either love them or hate them BUT I like to help a client have a good idea BEFORE they buy it.
May 28th, 2007 at 1:21 am
Sometimes clients get confused when they are ready to sign and I want them to see a reasonable facsimile first. I know that “on paper” always looks better than “in person”.
Another example of that is differing ceiling heights. You often can’t visualise the feel of 10 foot high ceiling vs an 8 foot or nine foot, and a 10 foot ceiling in a flow through can look a bit odd if the living areas are too narrow.
May 28th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Yup! In some Miami Beach condos, high ceilings make them look and feel more like a tunnel.
June 2nd, 2007 at 1:06 pm
What a fascinating discussion. I am not aware of any flow-through units in the San Jose/Silicon Valley area (but then, the only views are really of the mountains on each side of the valley, or possibly downtown SJ). We’re now getting a lot of infill construction (tearing down old commercial stuff and putting up mixed use or strictly residential buildings). I will keep my eyes open for this type of condo to appear. If it’s popular there, I’m sure it will get here eventually.
Interestingly, my husband’s parents had a place like this in Geneva about 40 or 50 years ago. So I guess it’s not an entirely new concept!
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:19 pm
Mary,
Yes, watch for it. It may be something desirable for some people too! I just like to point it out and give my clients something already built to compare them to.
June 5th, 2007 at 11:58 am
The Apogee development looks most interesting. Any word on the availability/price of the penthouse or a Unit A on the higher floors Kevin? Are there better current/future developments that are in your opinion, a better buy? We will probably make a trip to Miami at some point in the future, currently just trying to get a feel for what options are available.
Many thanks
June 6th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Hello Karim
All three of the PH’s are sold. Yes, there are higher ‘A’ units coming to market. Those units are $6M+ and for a higher floor, probably closer to $7M.
Apogee will be the most exclusive condominium in South Florida. The developers are likening it to a hip Fifth Avenue building.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Buyers should beware buying a condo when they have not seen the unit. A realtor should make the buyer aware they have 15 days to read the big binder that has been given to them at signing. Better yet the binder should be read before they sign as the developer usually has “hidden” things in there that they do not have their realtor disclose to the buyer. I know someone that bought from the Patrinely Group in Tampa, The Plaza Harbour Island. They are also building the South Beach Ocean Resort and Club Residences. They do not disclose information to the buyer before they sign the contract. For example, they did not disclose that no floors, no painting, no molding, no baseboards installed, no door stops and in some cases no ceiling yet they market the condos as high end. Then to make matters worse, they sell units at a preminum for the view and then once the buyers close, they plan to put up a hotel directly in front of their windows where not only the view is compromised but also privacy. It is really sad that buyers are not protected more than what they are regarding these types of things.
May 9th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Wow, look at those floorplans. I would do anything to live at the Apogee. I drive by it everyday and could only imagine the view from those wrap around floor-to-ceiling windows!